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I get lots of email from people telling me they are terribly upset by the treatment they recieved when approached by Royal Resorts, but I have had a couple of emails from people who'd like to put forward their concern that I may be inadvertantly giving the time share industry in general a hard time.
I want to say that I've never bought a time share product and have never experienced the offering or service they provide. I have been to a presentation in Brisbane and of course the one in Bali and it seemed to me, that it didn't add up for me in my personal situation.
I'm sure that there are many cases however in which it would suit a person down to the ground and that it would be a great buy because it was a good deal in their situation.
I've said many times, i don't mind what people try to sell, I only object to the way it's being sold and the emails i recieve every week confirm to me that I'm not the only one being pissed off by the missleading tactics being used to get people to the presentations.
Once int he presentations it seems that very high presure is used in some cases reported to me and in some cases, fees charged seem to be adjusted down if they think they can swing a client with a lower upfront charge.
Having said all that stuff, I will always post comments from people who I believe are genuinely concerned about a point, or if it's fair to put a particular point forward. I have never had an email from a time share company in the past but this is one, so I'm posting it.
Paul has valid points and is certainly one of the good guys.
Dear Tony,
Frankly, I think you are being a bit harsh on the Company over your experience. You should not blame Royal for a lie told you by an impoverished Indonesian desperate for some cash. The only recourse for Royal would be to sack the guy - is that what you want? On the other hand, I know of one ethical timeshare company in Bali which has trained its people not to lie by not paying them if caught in a lie and actually fining them - even so, one or two occasionally try it on!
The method of attracting prospective buyers is perfectly reasonable if honestly presented and is certainly no worse than, for example, banks and other large companies plying all and sundry with unsolicited credit cards.
The real scam with Royal is the presentation. Excluding the Karma resorts which are NOT part of its timeshare operation, there are just a couple of small properties in Bali which have long been oversold. The principal resorts are in Goa with some 500 rooms which are reportedly below par. The earlier trick was to hard-sell a timeshare in Bali, the Island of the Gods then, at the last minute, regret that the 'last one' has just been sold but 'why not buy in Goa, you can always do an exchange and come to Bali'. Fat chance! Now, apparently,although I hope not, the ploy is to present one of the Karma resorts as representative of the quality of the timeshare resorts. 'Mugs' end up buying into something in Goa which they have not seen and which has been totally misrepresented.
There is little point in seeking redress in the Indonesian Courts - they are totally corrupt and Royal has more cash to pay the judges than any small group of plaintiffs. Of course, John Spence, the owner of Karma Royal Resorts is now a resident of W Australia, Australia's entrepreneur of the year, for god's sake!! Whether or not, a class action could be directed against him there needs to be investigated even though his contracts state 'subject to the law of Indonesia'.
His actions bring timeshare into disrepute which is a shame because, for those who like travel or enjoy holidays regularly, it is an unbeatable scheme opening up the World to cheap(er) holidays. I read once that something like 90% of timeshare owners are very pleased or satisfied with the scheme ( the other 10% are probably Royal Resort members!)
regards,
Paul
PS You can bet your boots that Chris and Trudy are pseudonyms for an associate/employee of Royal.
Dear Paul,
You're probably right that I've probably gone a bit over the top by running this site for so long and made sit more of a big deal of it than I might have.
At the time I did not imagine it would take on a life of it's own.
So many people get hauled in by so many companies all around the world that I should have just accepted it and moved on. As it happened though, I didn't and put up this site and have had hundreds of emails telling me that it was helpful to them.
I suspect that just as I felt, people feel like they've been conned into going to the office and feel like real chumps. It obviously pisses a lot of people of becuase a lot of people write to me tell ing what idiots they were. It appears that the site is helpful in reassuring them that they were not the only ones who'd been drawn in and I think that allows them to feel better about themselves again.
It's indeed possible that the native Indonesian who initially approached us was a skillful lier and it's also possible that bending the truth is completely against Karmas policy. It's also possible Karma is completely unaware of their agents using lies to get people to the interviews.
It seems to me that it would be a fairly large oversight as it's reported to me that it's a completely universal practice and that it happens in most cases and has been for some years. I get notes from people every single week telling me it's still going on.
I hope that someone is able to contact Karma and bring it to their attention. An ethical comany would certianly retrain they staff immediately.
I personally tried in vain to get hold of any company official after my experience and ended up sending email to all the company officials who's email address I could find on the internet, not only in Bali but all around the world. I must have sent dozens of emails but got not one single response. This made me assume they were aware of the practice and were comfortable with it.
I should say to you Paul that I am not in the least against time share. I think it's a great thing for some people and for others it's not suitable. Just like any investment, if you don't understand it, you shouldn't make it. If you do understand it, it's a great deal and lots of fun and I'm sure quite rewarding.
I've never once advised a person not to go ahead with it. I will never in the future advise against it either. It's personal choice and none of my business.
My only gripe was the way it was marketed to me and obviously from the number of emails I receive, to others also. People write to me in great distress at the way they were dealt with. I have to say that off the very large number of emails I've received saying negative things about te practice, I have recieved a couple of email saying they liked the whole deal and I put these on the site. I have stopped putting emails up just saying thank for helping them. I get those a few times a week. I got an email just this morning saying that due to the site he was able to negotiate a refund after Royal resorts refused to allow him out even during the 5 day cooling off period. They made it a condition of the refund that his note was taken down and I've taken it down already.
Paul I'm quite prepared to belive that your company does the right thing and is honest with people. I have not at any time suggested on the site that time share is a bad thing or that any company other than royal bali has don'e anything wrong as I have not personally been aware of any, although others have mentioned to me that others do use the practice.
It will be interesting to see what happens with this so called "class action". I personally don't give it much creedence. I'm sure you're right that the judges and lawyers will be the only ones to see any cash. I certainly didn't have anything to do with it and gave no help to it at all. Again, it's none of my business.
If the site has affected the business you're involved in and you don't use this marketing system then I'm extremely sorry and I hope royal stop this practice so I can take the site down knowing it's no longer needed.
Thanks for your email. I'll post it to the site unless you would prefer me not to. I'm sure it'll be helpful to others.
Regards
Tony James
Noosa Australia
Mob: 0417 601 511
Dear Paul,
You're probably right that I've probably gone a bit over the top by running this site for so long and made sit more of a big deal of it than I might have.
At the time I did not imagine it would take on a life of it's own.
So many people get hauled in by so many companies all around the world that I should have just accepted it and moved on. As it happened though, I didn't and put up this site and have had hundreds of emails telling me that it was helpful to them.
I suspect that just as I felt, people feel like they've been conned into going to the office and feel like real chumps. It obviously pisses a lot of people of becuase a lot of people write to me tell ing what idiots they were. It appears that the site is helpful in reassuring them that they were not the only ones who'd been drawn in and I think that allows them to feel better about themselves again.
It's indeed possible that the native Indonesian who initially approached us was a skillful lier and it's also possible that bending the truth is completely against Karmas policy. It's also possible Karma is completely unaware of their agents using lies to get people to the interviews.
It seems to me that it would be a fairly large oversight as it's reported to me that it's a completely universal practice and that it happens in most cases and has been for some years. I get notes from people every single week telling me it's still going on.
I hope that someone is able to contact Karma and bring it to their attention. An ethical comany would certianly retrain they staff immediately.
I personally tried in vain to get hold of any company official after my experience and ended up sending email to all the company officials who's email address I could find on the internet, not only in Bali but all around the world. I must have sent dozens of emails but got not one single response. This made me assume they were aware of the practice and were comfortable with it.
I should say to you Paul that I am not in the least against time share. I think it's a great thing for some people and for others it's not suitable. Just like any investment, if you don't understand it, you shouldn't make it. If you do understand it, it's a great deal and lots of fun and I'm sure quite rewarding.
I've never once advised a person not to go ahead with it. I will never in the future advise against it either. It's personal choice and none of my business.
My only gripe was the way it was marketed to me and obviously from the number of emails I receive, to others also. People write to me in great distress at the way they were dealt with. I have to say that off the very large number of emails I've received saying negative things about te practice, I have recieved a couple of email saying they liked the whole deal and I put these on the site. I have stopped putting emails up just saying thank for helping them. I get those a few times a week. I got an email just this morning saying that due to the site he was able to negotiate a refund after Royal resorts refused to allow him out even during the 5 day cooling off period. They made it a condition of the refund that his note was taken down and I've taken it down already.
Paul I'm quite prepared to belive that your company does the right thing and is honest with people. I have not at any time suggested on the site that time share is a bad thing or that any company other than royal bali has don'e anything wrong as I have not personally been aware of any, although others have mentioned to me that others do use the practice.
It will be interesting to see what happens with this so called "class action". I personally don't give it much creedence. I'm sure you're right that the judges and lawyers will be the only ones to see any cash. I certainly didn't have anything to do with it and gave no help to it at all. Again, it's none of my business.
If the site has affected the business you're involved in and you don't use this marketing system then I'm extremely sorry and I hope royal stop this practice so I can take the site down knowing it's no longer needed.
Thanks for your email. I'll post it to the site unless you would prefer me not to. I'm sure it'll be helpful to others.
Regards
Tony James
Noosa Australia
Mob: 0417 601 511
Dear Tony,
My sympathy goes to the poor people who actually signed up with Royal and discover later that the dream presented to them is nothing short of a nightmare. John Spence is a wily operator and was the prime mover in setting up Hutchinson & Co Trust Co Ltd, Crown Finance and Royal Resorts. The former, as a UK based company, is supposed to provide credibility to the security of tenure but there is no Trust Law in Indonesia and, moreover, a foreign company is not permitted to hold land and property in Indonesia without a representative office in the country. Crown Finance was set up with Spence's nominated directors to strengthen the legality for collecting the money from the many who try to cancel. A finance company obviously can claim that it has had to pay out the full value of the financed amount and wishes to recover that sum. Royal timeshare resorts offer generally inferior accommodation mostly in Goa which the purchasers have not seen and which is easily misrepresented as luxurious. I have heard that Royal shows its non-timeshare Karma resorts as representing the quality offered - if so, that is a very serious misrepresentation. Royal's resorts are affiliated to RCI (Resort Condominiums International), an exchange company, which has recently successfully defended a class action in the USA. The claimants could not have used as witnesses the many ex-employees of RCI who have revealed RCI's operating policies on other websites. They reported that the best of the exchange weeks banked with RCI are creamed off and sold at a price way above the exchange fee rather than made available to its members for exchange. The whole Royal shebang is, in my opinion, seedy.
Most of the contributors to your site complain about wasting a chunk of their holiday time. As I said in my previous e-mail, I contend that the marketing method is perfectly reasonable as long as it is honest - in your case your grievance is justified as you were lied to. For the others, they were told that they had to stay 30 mins in order to qualify for the prize so, as they were not interested in the product, why on earth did they stay for 2 or 3 hours?
I must admit that I am concerned that your website, whilst justifiably condemning Royal, unavoidably gives all timeshare a bad name. There are good ethical companies out there which provide a desirable product within a first -class exchange scheme. Ah well, c'est la vie.
regards,
Paul
